Hello Michelle, can you briefly tell us about your background and current position?
Background
My career is a little bit different to what you would normally see in France because firstly, I studied in Australia where I did an undergraduate degree, and then, if you have the right score, you can have a one-year honors degree which is lab-based. So, I think this is quite similar to what is a master’s degree in Europe. And secondly, I worked for almost 10 years as a research assistant across various laboratories in Australia before doing a PhD. I worked at the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute, the Walter and Eliza Hall Institute in Melbourne, and then I moved back to Adelaide where I studied, and worked at the Women’s and Children’s Hospital, at the Hansen Center for Cancer Research, before moving to Flinders University to do a PhD. This means I started my PhD in my 30’s compared to most people in France who do it in their 20’s. Following my PhD, I got a post doc offer from Institute. So, I moved over to France, and I spent 4 years in Stephan Vagner’s lab working on pre-mRNA processing following genotoxic stress.
Current Position
I am currently a Program Director for a medical communications agency, and mostly involved in resourcing, client management, business development, and team management. I manage two teams across oncology; one is in bladder cancer and the other is in internal pharma staff training on various therapeutic areas including lung carcinoma, breast cancer, AML and Hodgkin's lymphoma. So, I initially started as a medical writer, which means that you create content started on the marketing side, which meant that I created marketing campaigns, commercial campaigns for pharma companies. And then I switched to what is known as the medical education side, which is more about training staff, training HCPs on the treatment guidelines, the treatment landscape, understanding what is new for them and how they can approach treatment with their patients. Now, I am more in a managerial role, so I don't really do content work anymore. So, yes, that is the journey that I took over the last 20 years!
Well, quite interesting. You have had diverse working experiences so far. How long did it take for you to get a position after you graduated?
Yes, after my PhD, I started looking very quickly afterwards, obviously. I was given six months after submitting to continue some experiments and to submit a few more publications. So, I was being paid as a post-doc at that point, but during that time I was actively looking for jobs. I think it took about three or four months to get the job at Institut Curie, but I did send off a lot of applications. And I wasn't really looking at Europe initially, I was mostly focusing on Australia, but Australia has a very limited job market for postdocs compared to Europe because salaries are much higher and so there is more competition.
Following my postdoc, to move into medical communications, I was searching for six months. And during that time, I was attending networking sessions. I was speaking to people in other jobs with PhDs to understand what I could do. I was doing LinkedIn training courses. I was also doing some freelance writing work for ‘The Guardian’ and ‘Nature’ blogs. So, I was trying to sharpen my skills because I was interested in communications. I think that took about six months to get my job following my postdoc.
How would you suggest the current PhDs or postdocs prepare for job positions?
About postdocs moving into another research position or postdocs moving into a non-research position? Because it can be different. So, I got offered a postdoc position while I was looking into med comms and at the same time, I got offered my medical communications job and I really had to sit down and weigh up the options. I also got offered an early career research position back in Australia. And I made the decision to move into medical communication partly because it's a higher salary, but more because it was a permanent position, so it was more stable and that was something that appealed to me.
My advice is you should always look early. You should do like you do for research. You wouldn't just start an experiment without working out what the protocol is and what reagents you need! And, you know, what’s your hypothesis? It's the same when looking for a job. What is it you actually want? Don't just randomly apply for jobs because that will be very evident in your application letter. You need to tailor it. You need to make sure that you know it's right for you. And it is the same with medical communications. You need to know if that is the field you want to move into, or anything outside of academia. So, I would say…do the research. Six months before, start looking, start thinking, start talking to people, go to networking events, call some labs and lab heads and speak to them. Put yourself out there!
How prepared did you feel for job positions when you had just graduated? Did you undergo any other additional courses or skills?
I didn't think I had to. I mean, you need to know a little bit about the lab you're going to, about the research focus. Before I moved there, I asked Stefan for his current publications and all that kind of information, so I could prepare myself and understand exactly what I would be doing when I got to the lab. I think you can always prepare. And anything that you can do that can help you hit the ground running or to really understand what you're going to be working on is a bonus. I think we should move to new positions with a little bit of humility, knowing that there is going to be a learning curve and that you are not going to know everything straight away. I think that is something that people should keep in mind so that you don't get frustrated, or you don't feel that you haven't achieved your goals. Just come in with a little bit of humility and patience.
So, for moving into medical communications, while I was at Institut Curie, I undertook a postgraduate master's degree in communications, which I did part time while I was working full time. So that meant, I was doing coursework on the weekends, attending lectures in the evenings through distance education. That definitely helped me get my job in medical communications because it gave me a good understanding of creating a communication plan, of what communication is, and it gave me an insight into the fact that it's a team environment with clients and it's a different structure to a lab. So any training that you can do can always be a bonus. I know Institut Curie offers training courses in project management, and all those additional trainings can boost your chances of getting a job.
During your studies, what skills did you acquire that you consider most crucial for your professional life?
People with PhDs are highly valuable in medical communications and those other fields because we have critical thinking. We're able to digest complex information quite quickly and kind of take away the key information. You know, we already have a scientific background, which means we can already interpret clinical trial data and read publications that we would need to read to know the key clinical trials. We have very good project management skills, we can multitask. So, these are the main skills I would say. A lot of skills are very transferable, but I would say the top skill is critical thinking.
And how do you rate the applicability of your degree, for example, the PhD in the real-world scenario, or how competent is it for professional activities?
Well, as I said, people with PhDs are highly valuable because of the various skills that we get out of it. So, it is highly applicable in medical communications, at least in my agency. We only hire people with PhDs, and I know in other industries they only hire people with PhDs.
Would you consider your current work belongs to your field of study? From the beginning of your career, which sector (public or private) did you prefer and what did you find most challenging to step into this sector?
I work in oncology. So, yes, I guess you could say that. I am able to understand the disease landscape, the mechanisms of disease, the treatment landscape, treatment regime, all the clinical trials, as a result of my studies because I worked in oncology, or oncology-associated. So, yeah, I think I'm still working in that field.
My industry - I wouldn't say, is a private sector per se, but it is a business. I miss doing the manipulations in the lab and creating the experiments, but in my current job, I have more opportunities to move through the ranks, for promotions and to really grow skills. So, I mean, there are things I like about both, and things I don't like about both. I think it is just that you have to find where you fit. Really, I don't think it's a plus or a minus.
Did you find any language barrier while searching for a job?
No, not particularly because I do speak French. And in my current agency, although it is located in the Netherlands, and I am remote in France, almost everyone in the agency speaks English including the clients. In my first med comms job, which was in an agency in France, we had a local team who worked on French accounts, creating French pharma campaigns for the French market. Sometimes there were language barriers there, but actually, on the plus side, it helped me improve my French skills. So, I mean, it depends, you have to again think, what is your objective and what the situation is. You have to adapt. I don’t think it is a barrier unless you go to a lab where you don’t speak the language and nobody speaks English but hopefully you will have done your research before you make that step and once again, it comes back to what is your objective and what you want out of the job.
What do you know now that you wish you knew during your PhD?
It's not a failure if you leave academia. You are not failing if you decide “I've enjoyed my time in research, but I want something more stable” or “I want to try a different school” or “I want work-life balance”. It is not a failure if those are the things that you want. Because, like I said earlier, what you've learned during your PhD, it may not be evident, but those skills are really transferable. So, I don't regret a single thing that's happened in my career, honestly. I've learned, and I've grown, and I have experienced. I don't think there's anything that I kind of wish I knew during my PhD, except that I stopped having feelings of imposter syndrome or that I was failing because I was leaving academia.
If you would have a chance to do it all over again, you do something differently?
No.
So, for the present postdocs or PhDs, do you have any final suggestions?
Yes, critically think about what it is that you want and don't feel that you have to go into academia because that's what seems like the right path. There are many, many paths for someone with a PhD. So, don't ever feel like you're failing, because you're not. You're actually learning a lot of really valuable skills that you can use in multiple different industries and positions. So, that's the only thing I would say to people who are doing a PhD.
Interview by Kazi-Faizul Azim in July 2024